Perth Marathon 
.
Perth Marathon
. 
Wanneroo Nationals 8km Walk 1989,
week 9; 10x800m and 10k rep fire things up a gear
Sunday 4th October AD;
Ran Fremantle fun run 5km in 22min 53 secs
Hr 180 at end, 4min 34 per km.
Splits 4.12/4.36/4.46/4.52/4.27
Official results are HERE and show I placed 47th and first in my age category (mainly cos most people my age did the 10k... some photos HERE
Good run from Epi to be just a few seconds shy of going under 38 minutes and A-grade status...!
Had fun with this one, and probably didn't really finish as strong as I could as shown by the relatively low HR of 180 at finish. Probably got a bit soft from 3k to 4k as well, not too pleased with the 4.52 split. The start was very messy although it was nice to start on the grass, and I took it easy for the first 100-200m to make sure I didn't do an ankle, so probably could have found another 10 seconds very easily in the first 1k...My main target was to go under 23 minutes which I did, so thats very pleasing! My reserve target was 23.45, but I knew early on by 2-3k that a sub 23minute effort was a decent chance. dreamed of doing 19-21 minutes, but not having trained specifically for this event I knew that was pretty unrealistic.
My 5k PB of 21.04 from 5/10/03 was also done on this fast flat course which I like a lot, especially once you get past the messy first 500m or so...
Splits from that race 6 years ago are;
3.38/4.13/4.33/4.25/4.15
but I targeted the event a bit for that one. In 2003 I hadn't run any marathons but that year I had run my first two Half-marathons in 1.43 and 1.46. So with superior strength now, I should be able to run a Half in at least mid 1.40's at my current level of fitness, maybe quicker.
Had a lovely time catching up with Coolrunners like Mjail and family, and afterwards at Little Creatures with Trev,Kilee,20thCboy,Loubee,Turtlerunner and others. What a wonderful morning God blessed me with...:-)
WEEK 9 (of 10) (28/09/09-04/10/09);
Volume;178min. Sessions; 4 Best RHR; 42!
Sleep;45.5 (6.5 hrs per night) *12 MR-19hrs
OD/LSD sessions;NIL
Short/Medium runs;
-5km race in 22min 52 (sunday)
Reps sessions;
-10k reps session in 45min 00 secs (4min 30 per k)HR's 171-183 (Wednesday)
-800m and 400m (3.54 per k) (thursday)
-10x800m Yassos=8000m reps in 33.01 (4.07 per km) 3min 18 average for 800's (Friday)
Comments;
Mostly need to just to avoid injury and illness , get plenty of sleep, and get to the start line on 11th October ready to go! Probably my main missions now will be to earn as much money as I can from metering before we fly out, and to avoid most activities that might potentially cause me trouble.
I am confident I have done enough to give my 3.55 PB a really strong challenge.
I think I am comfortable with 4.30-5min K's so that is the pace I want to try and work with for the first Half of the Melbourne Marathon, and then in the second half it will be about trying to stay under 5.30 per K...If I can do both those things I should hit around 3.25-3.45..but its mone thing to talk about it, and another to do it, especially with the Marathon...7 days to go...
Friday 2nd October 2009 A.D.;
AK Reserve Track PM;
Ran 10x800m in 3min 18 average. (4min 07 per KM)
Total time 33min 01 secs + 9 x 3 minute rests...
Light 1 lap warm up and cool down.
2.54.68 HR 186..200m splits; 34/45/52/43
3.19.75 HR 174 200m splits; 44/53/54/48
3.11.03 HR 186 200m splits; 40/52/54/45
3.20.12 HR 186 200m splits; 46/53/54/47
3.14.16 HR 180 200m splits; 42/53/54/45
3.27.62 HR 177 200m splits; 49/56/56/46
3.22.46 HR 183 200m splits; 45/55/55/47
3.25.53 HR 180 200m splits; 46/55/58/46
3.29.13 HR 183 200m splits; 48/54/53/54
3.16.60 HR 186 200m splits; 45/54/54/43
The first 5 800s averaged 3.11.95 (3.59 per km)
and the last 5x800m averaged 3.24.27 (4.15 per km)
So on the basis of this session on the information I have heard it seems a reasonable assumption that somewhere between 3.23 and 3.55 looks to be possible for me.
But thats a big guestimate...so we shall see...besides the quality of my other training will be important too, and I'm not sure how much crdence I should place on the Yasso 800's as a lot of people don't agree with them, and even some of those who do reckon they are more VO2 max thing primarily. Its the first time Ive tried ém (although I have heard of them many times) so hopefully its helpful ...
I thought about doing the 800's at S. Park (but figured too much headwind, and the grass surface not that quick) or Len Shearer in Melville/Booragoon, but when I saw the sand under the grass at Len Shearer, I figured no its going to be slow, and the only track I knew would be fast and I could access was AK reserve, so decided to knock off work early and do the long drive. The times above represent the reward for my persistence, and for choosing a fast track to train on.
Injury report; after being a good boy and doing my hammy stretches th last two days, the hammy didn't trouble me tonight at all, its still a bit tender afterwards, so need to keep the stretches regime ticking over. Shins were a bit sore, maybe running on a harder track, or maybe some other reasons...some minor left ankle soreness, but overall nothing a day of rest, and some showers, icepacks won't fix...so looking good...
Info about Yasso 800's om the web;
1-Hillrunner says Y800's overrated
2-Bart Yasso and runners world the origin of the 10x800m...builds up to 10 x800 over several months with the last 10x800 about 10-17 days before the marathon...
3-Coolrunning.com comments re Y800's
4-Jims experiences with Bart Yasso.
5-Bart Yasso.com
6- Slings 2007Yasso800's thread on coolrunning.com.au
7-More yasso threads on coolrunning.com.au 2009 Yasso thread,
2008 various predictors..200620042004 again
2004 yet again
2003
Thursday 1st October A.D.;
Ran at S. Park after work, felt very sluggish and unmotivated.
800m 3min 24.
400m 1.22.10
Aborted the session after 2 reps, as I just didn't have any drive mentally or physically, partly a big downer after the tough 10k rep session the night before I think...
Wednesday 30th September A.D.;
At S. Park after a pretty big day at work, legs were already pretty tired, and I didn't really feel like it, but forced myself out there, and slept a solid 8 hours that night.
Ran 10k reps session Total time 45min 00 secs...Heart rates 171-183.
Not a PB, (PB is 39.58 from 2003) for this special session I have been doing since 1992 at least. (It helped me get two state U/20 residential records for the 10km walk in 1992/1993) but my best effort in the last 4 shots at this tough session since October 2007. It has always predicted a 10k race time of about 1min slower than the total 10k rep time, so on that basis it means I should be able to run a 10k in 46minutes flat.
Working into a fairly strong south westerly wind that kept hitting me in the front straight.
The last two reps it was dark and getting hard to see the track, and the last rep I could have gone faster but due to moonlight being all I had to see the track, and having to use the light button on my watch when ever I wanted to check my split, I feel I could have found a few more seconds, if I had more daylight...
A hard session, not as high in intensity as say a 3km ladder or 5x300m, but overall I was so worn out! after this one, a fair bit tougher than than the 10x800m session...
In 2007 I did 45.17 for this same 10k reps session a week before I ran 4.10 that year, but looking back at it;
1.- my heart rates were a whole lot higher in 2007...i.e. some 192-201 stuff!,
2.- I dont think I was weary from working before it in 2007,
3.- my conditioning, sleep etc leading in the last 6 days wasn't as good as this time, e.g. I did no training at all between my 10k rep session and the Marathon in 2007.
4.- I didn't have to do the last two reps under moonlight.
5.- I am 17 seconds quicker this time...,
so I reckon I am in better condition than I was in 2007 when I did my first Melbourne Marathon in 4.10, which suggests that maybe just maybe I will smash the 4 hour barrier and my 3.55 PB quite convincingly this time...I'm hoping and praying my little goal is realised this time...
Ran Fremantle fun run 5km in 22min 53 secs
Hr 180 at end, 4min 34 per km.
Splits 4.12/4.36/4.46/4.52/4.27
Official results are HERE and show I placed 47th and first in my age category (mainly cos most people my age did the 10k... some photos HERE
Good run from Epi to be just a few seconds shy of going under 38 minutes and A-grade status...!
Had fun with this one, and probably didn't really finish as strong as I could as shown by the relatively low HR of 180 at finish. Probably got a bit soft from 3k to 4k as well, not too pleased with the 4.52 split. The start was very messy although it was nice to start on the grass, and I took it easy for the first 100-200m to make sure I didn't do an ankle, so probably could have found another 10 seconds very easily in the first 1k...My main target was to go under 23 minutes which I did, so thats very pleasing! My reserve target was 23.45, but I knew early on by 2-3k that a sub 23minute effort was a decent chance. dreamed of doing 19-21 minutes, but not having trained specifically for this event I knew that was pretty unrealistic.
My 5k PB of 21.04 from 5/10/03 was also done on this fast flat course which I like a lot, especially once you get past the messy first 500m or so...
Splits from that race 6 years ago are;
3.38/4.13/4.33/4.25/4.15
but I targeted the event a bit for that one. In 2003 I hadn't run any marathons but that year I had run my first two Half-marathons in 1.43 and 1.46. So with superior strength now, I should be able to run a Half in at least mid 1.40's at my current level of fitness, maybe quicker.
Had a lovely time catching up with Coolrunners like Mjail and family, and afterwards at Little Creatures with Trev,Kilee,20thCboy,Loubee,Turtlerunner and others. What a wonderful morning God blessed me with...:-)
WEEK 9 (of 10) (28/09/09-04/10/09);
Volume;178min. Sessions; 4 Best RHR; 42!
Sleep;45.5 (6.5 hrs per night) *12 MR-19hrs
OD/LSD sessions;NIL
Short/Medium runs;
-5km race in 22min 52 (sunday)
Reps sessions;
-10k reps session in 45min 00 secs (4min 30 per k)HR's 171-183 (Wednesday)
-800m and 400m (3.54 per k) (thursday)
-10x800m Yassos=8000m reps in 33.01 (4.07 per km) 3min 18 average for 800's (Friday)
Comments;
Mostly need to just to avoid injury and illness , get plenty of sleep, and get to the start line on 11th October ready to go! Probably my main missions now will be to earn as much money as I can from metering before we fly out, and to avoid most activities that might potentially cause me trouble.
I am confident I have done enough to give my 3.55 PB a really strong challenge.
I think I am comfortable with 4.30-5min K's so that is the pace I want to try and work with for the first Half of the Melbourne Marathon, and then in the second half it will be about trying to stay under 5.30 per K...If I can do both those things I should hit around 3.25-3.45..but its mone thing to talk about it, and another to do it, especially with the Marathon...7 days to go...
Friday 2nd October 2009 A.D.;
AK Reserve Track PM;
Ran 10x800m in 3min 18 average. (4min 07 per KM)
Total time 33min 01 secs + 9 x 3 minute rests...
Light 1 lap warm up and cool down.
2.54.68 HR 186..200m splits; 34/45/52/43
3.19.75 HR 174 200m splits; 44/53/54/48
3.11.03 HR 186 200m splits; 40/52/54/45
3.20.12 HR 186 200m splits; 46/53/54/47
3.14.16 HR 180 200m splits; 42/53/54/45
3.27.62 HR 177 200m splits; 49/56/56/46
3.22.46 HR 183 200m splits; 45/55/55/47
3.25.53 HR 180 200m splits; 46/55/58/46
3.29.13 HR 183 200m splits; 48/54/53/54
3.16.60 HR 186 200m splits; 45/54/54/43
The first 5 800s averaged 3.11.95 (3.59 per km)
and the last 5x800m averaged 3.24.27 (4.15 per km)
So on the basis of this session on the information I have heard it seems a reasonable assumption that somewhere between 3.23 and 3.55 looks to be possible for me.
But thats a big guestimate...so we shall see...besides the quality of my other training will be important too, and I'm not sure how much crdence I should place on the Yasso 800's as a lot of people don't agree with them, and even some of those who do reckon they are more VO2 max thing primarily. Its the first time Ive tried ém (although I have heard of them many times) so hopefully its helpful ...
I thought about doing the 800's at S. Park (but figured too much headwind, and the grass surface not that quick) or Len Shearer in Melville/Booragoon, but when I saw the sand under the grass at Len Shearer, I figured no its going to be slow, and the only track I knew would be fast and I could access was AK reserve, so decided to knock off work early and do the long drive. The times above represent the reward for my persistence, and for choosing a fast track to train on.
Injury report; after being a good boy and doing my hammy stretches th last two days, the hammy didn't trouble me tonight at all, its still a bit tender afterwards, so need to keep the stretches regime ticking over. Shins were a bit sore, maybe running on a harder track, or maybe some other reasons...some minor left ankle soreness, but overall nothing a day of rest, and some showers, icepacks won't fix...so looking good...
Info about Yasso 800's om the web;
1-Hillrunner says Y800's overrated
2-Bart Yasso and runners world the origin of the 10x800m...builds up to 10 x800 over several months with the last 10x800 about 10-17 days before the marathon...
3-Coolrunning.com comments re Y800's
4-Jims experiences with Bart Yasso.
5-Bart Yasso.com
6- Slings 2007Yasso800's thread on coolrunning.com.au
7-More yasso threads on coolrunning.com.au 2009 Yasso thread,
2008 various predictors..200620042004 again
2004 yet again
2003
Thursday 1st October A.D.;
Ran at S. Park after work, felt very sluggish and unmotivated.
800m 3min 24.
400m 1.22.10
Aborted the session after 2 reps, as I just didn't have any drive mentally or physically, partly a big downer after the tough 10k rep session the night before I think...
Wednesday 30th September A.D.;
At S. Park after a pretty big day at work, legs were already pretty tired, and I didn't really feel like it, but forced myself out there, and slept a solid 8 hours that night.
Ran 10k reps session Total time 45min 00 secs...Heart rates 171-183.
Not a PB, (PB is 39.58 from 2003) for this special session I have been doing since 1992 at least. (It helped me get two state U/20 residential records for the 10km walk in 1992/1993) but my best effort in the last 4 shots at this tough session since October 2007. It has always predicted a 10k race time of about 1min slower than the total 10k rep time, so on that basis it means I should be able to run a 10k in 46minutes flat.
Working into a fairly strong south westerly wind that kept hitting me in the front straight.
The last two reps it was dark and getting hard to see the track, and the last rep I could have gone faster but due to moonlight being all I had to see the track, and having to use the light button on my watch when ever I wanted to check my split, I feel I could have found a few more seconds, if I had more daylight...
A hard session, not as high in intensity as say a 3km ladder or 5x300m, but overall I was so worn out! after this one, a fair bit tougher than than the 10x800m session...
In 2007 I did 45.17 for this same 10k reps session a week before I ran 4.10 that year, but looking back at it;
1.- my heart rates were a whole lot higher in 2007...i.e. some 192-201 stuff!,
2.- I dont think I was weary from working before it in 2007,
3.- my conditioning, sleep etc leading in the last 6 days wasn't as good as this time, e.g. I did no training at all between my 10k rep session and the Marathon in 2007.
4.- I didn't have to do the last two reps under moonlight.
5.- I am 17 seconds quicker this time...,
so I reckon I am in better condition than I was in 2007 when I did my first Melbourne Marathon in 4.10, which suggests that maybe just maybe I will smash the 4 hour barrier and my 3.55 PB quite convincingly this time...I'm hoping and praying my little goal is realised this time...
posted by trailblazer777 | 10/02/2009 11:24:00 pm
6 Comments:
Good stuff Jonathon. 10 x 800 is a big session. I'd be happy to have that 2:54 as a first-up race!
I'm one of those who's not totally convinced about Yasso 800s being a good guide for marathon pace. Sort of depends on how fast you jog the recoveries. If you go out at 3:18 pace I fear you'll blow up big time. Something around 3:30-3:40 pace might feel more comfortable.
I think the 5k race will be a better guide - and the 10k reps session. If you're in 46 10k shape, that's 3:35:52 by McMillan, so quicker than that might be too Preish!
How does the 10k reps session work? Is it 10 x 1k?
Thanks Ewen.
I know I can go faster with the 800's but my conditioning was not good enough to hold onto even 40 second 200's (2.40 pace) let alone 34 second 200's (2.16 pace) this Friday, not sure I can be disciplined enough for long enough in my current life setup to work up to those sort of levels even though I know the speed is there still, maybe if I stopped working the night job and got the house sale done I could go after track one summer again like I did in 2002-2004. Other priorities pulling hard though...we shall see. Nice that the speed is still there, and I could dip under the 3minutes on an accurate track again without too much trouble.
I'm in two minds about the Yassos at present; a lot of the arguements out there suggest its impossible for them to be an accurate predictor, but on the other hand IF!!! the rest of your training is sufficient, they might just be more accurate a predictor than many people realise, maybe for reasons not thought of by the detractors.
I feel more sure trusting the 10k rep session as a predictor, i.e if I can run a 45min 10k rep I should be able to run a 46min 10k and a 22-23min 5k race, which IF!! the rest of training is sufficient predicts about 3.30-3.35 by my reckoning, so I will be expecting myself to avoid too many K splits slower than 4.45-5.15 per K, and certainly anything over 6min per Km must be avoided for 90% of the race i.e at least 36km.
The 10k reps session is a special formula that I developed with my Dad and possibly with my racewalking coach back in early 1990's I think. I havent shared it with anyone, and don't intend to. I will say though I think 800m is a bit short for a rep targeting the marathon, and hitting your goal marathon or at least half-marathon pace is the way to go I think. I also am a big believer in 1:1 recovery time, and while I agree with active recovery, I see no need to keep running around the track for it...for me personally I need my recovery time a lot, so I am not interested in shortening it any less than 2-3 minutes, and the intensity at which my active recovery occurs is irrelevant in my book...
I will be starting the Melbourne Marathon at well under 5 min per KM, and I will be operating on a positive split plan more than likely. That said I will try to tone down the PRE-ish-ness a bit in this one so as to conserve the glycogen a bit, and settle into a sustainable pace, and try to resist the urge to run the first K in sub 4 minutes...but sometimes its better to ride the lightning, than try and tame the tiger...
I also think that if I can sustain the improvement curve I have hit in the last 2-9 weeks, then going into 3.25-3.30 or better area maybe possible. To do that I need to run the first Half in under 1.45, i.e. under 5 minutes per km. I hope I don't blow up too much, and I am growing more confident by the day that I wont, but I am wary at being tool confident as I have been burnt by this one so many times already...
Thats my thoughts anyhow...
Appreciate the feedback!
Thanks Jonathon - a very detailed reply - except for the top secret! ;)
I don't think there's anything wrong with 1:1 recoveries or walking recoveries. My favourite session from the old days 3 x 1k in 3:10, starting every ten minutes, so a huge recovery. When I could do that session I knew I was in 10 minute 3k shape.
I just mentioned the jogging recovery for Yassos because as I understand it, that's the official formula for them - you jog for the same minutes as the rep. Jogging can be anything from 6 mins/k to 10 mins/k, so the slower you jog, the more the HR comes down before each rep and the faster you can run the 800s. So that's why the Yasso formula is flawed. It'd be better if it specified the distance and pace of the recoveries.
Good idea to conserve the glycogen on Sunday - yes, resist the 4 minute k urge at the start! Something in the 4:50 range over the first 10k should be safe enough. See you on the weekend!
Huh, I didn't remember posting that yasso thread on CR :p
As mentioned on facebook, I think PB is on the card for you. Make sure you start conservatively, run even paced, and you will finish strong. Good luck.
All the best for Melbourne and a triumphant entrance into the G... hope you have a great day. Your 5k will give you some confidence ; what Sling Runner said. Jope it comes together for you.
Nice 5k Jonathon. That gives you a 3:43 marathon by McMillan, so 3:35-40 a definite possibility if all goes well.
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